PUKKA Gallery Exclusive

Wayne Coyne interview Part 1
interviewed by Utayo Furukuni / 1 April 2002

Utayo Furukuni: Did you have a concept in mind for this album?

Wayne Coyne: It kinda does sound like there's some kind of concept going on, doesn't it? I don't really know if there is. I think, you know, this song the Yoshimi versus the Pink Robots pt.2,

U: The screaming one.

W: Yeah. We didn't really have a title for that one and I kept trying to think of a title. Then thought this one would it suit it, you know. And we had used this Yoshimi girl from Boredoms. She plays some trumpet on a couple of songs and we played some of these other tracks where she just sort of did some screaming. This wasn't one of them though. But she did some screaming on some other songs. And through the magic of computers and staff, you just take this screaming, and you can put it on any song you want. So I ended up having her scream on this song (Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots Pt.2) and this song(Approaching Pavonis Mons By Balloon). And there's little bits of her on some of the other songs. But I didn't have a title for this song. And I thought, you know, maybe it sounds like she could be fighting and I like this idea of pink robots, and so I just came up with this idea of Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots. I thought, "That sounds like a good title for that song." 'Cos you can hear her screamin' and something's going on. And that when we came up with the title for that, I thought, "That's a good title," and I was also singing this sort of melody that Steven had come up with on a tape recorder a while back. I wasn't thinking anything, it's like, what me and you were talking about earlier, you just start doing stuff and things happen. And so, while I was thinking of that title, I started to come up with this song that ended up being Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots pt 1. So I actually came up with that one first, just as the title,

U: Oh really, Part 2 came first.

W: and then I came up with the song. "Ah, that's, that's kind of a nice song." I didn't know what it meant or anything like that, you know. And at that time we didn't have Fight Test or One More Robot. We just had these other songs. And we were starting to think, "Ah, maybe we'll do like three or four more songs and we'll see where this is going."And, a lot of these other songs, In The Morning Of The Magician, Ego Tripping At The Gates Of Hell, It's Summertime, Do You Realize? All We Have Is Now, I started to feel, like, they were sort of philosophical and heavy in a way, you know, some of our songs are heavy, like Superman, it's kind of, it's serious and heavy. It's sad, you know, and they're about death or whatever and I started to think, "We have a lot of those." And even though, you know, they aren't, they don't sound like The Soft Bulletin, it is in the same philosophical realm as some of The Soft Bulletin. And it wasn't as though, I wasn't tired of that. I just thought I didn't want people to think that it's just so serious all the time. And so I thought "I'll come up with some silly songs. So I thought Yoshimi Battle The Pink Robots, that's a silly song, you know what I mean. And that's just fun sort of silly and then I came up with this Fight Test song about a guy, wishing he could beat up this guy, because he loves this girl, and it's not really about me or anything, it's just a story, you know. And then I thought Steven had this other really nice melody,

U: You mean, NO.2 (One More Robot).

W: Yeah. And I thought, "I'll make that about a robot and this girl. And she loves the robot, because the robot cares about her so much. And she starts to wonder about, 'do machines show love?' that sort of thing". And, so before I knew it, it really started to feel like, it was a concept record. Most of it was just these sort of philosophical songs but the thing that connected them was the Yoshimi in the background screaming, and playing some trumpet or something. So I ended up calling it Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots 'cos, I just thought "Oh," You know, it's...it's just kind of feels like a story, and it's not so heavy. In some way I just kind of, and I love the Soft Bulletin, but the Soft Bulletin, to me, felt more somber and more serious. And even though I like that, I didn't want this record to be somber and serious in the same way. So I thought, "Oh, make it more..."

U: Do you think some People just want to have The Soft Bulletin part 2...?

W: We didn't want that.

U: You don't want that. But some people want that, don't you think?

W: Well, I could see where...I don't want. I wouldn't want to do. I mean, if we wanted to go off in some weird direction, I mean, we would simply do that and go, "Oh, well, that's what we wanna do." But in a lot of ways, you know, with The Soft Bulletin we didn't really know, where we were gonna go with that. We ended up being able to do this really, you know, some of it this really sad and really powerful, and in a lot of ways, really kind of touching, kind of music. We weren't fully aware that we could do so much before that. So I think even when we, by time we got done with The Soft Bulletin, I just really, we could really, move into that area, and do more of that sort of thing, without feeling like it's just the same thing over and over. So we didn't feel like we had to do more really. I think we were just kind of doing what we liked, and I think that's just really the way we can do music.

U: Yeah. When I first listened to this album, I thought it's very new.

W: Humm...

U: Especially, no2, One More Robot. Maybe people think, "Whose song is this?" I think you guys discovered the new direction in a way.

W: Well, I think, you know, it always is surprising what bands think of themselves. They always think they are a certain thing and they think, "Oh...well, we do a certain kind of music, and maybe some bands can do that kind of music, these bands do that kind of music, we do this kind of music." But we're so stupid and so insecure about what kind of music that we would do that we take these little steps to think "Oh, let's try that," And we had started more stuff on computer, "Oh we don't wanna be a computer band." You know, we do stuff with keyboards, we think, "Oh, we're supposed to be playing guitars." But little by little, as we were doing Zaireeka and The Soft Bulletin, you know, even this new staff we're talking about, who cares about any of that. Let's just do music." And whatever it is, it is. And we didn't worry any more if it's a computer, if it's a drum machine, is it Steven playing drums. None of it even really mattered. We were just trying to do music that we liked then, however we got there, whatever we felt like was, moving, making a song, giving it more emotion, giving it, you know, making it just more satisfying. We would do it. We didn't have any restrictions anymore. And even though, you know, we love the way Steven plays drums, because he's so, he's so aggressive, and he's so precise. And the things he does really, a lot of other musicians really admire the way he plays. It wasn't as though we didn't value that. We just thought, we were doing other things as well. So I think in the end, we ended up with some things that Steven plays that are really great, but we ended up with some computer things that we think are really, hopefully unique. And because he's such a great drummer that he thinks in that way and for the most part the audience wouldn't care whether it's a computer, whether it's Steven, or, whether it's real people, or whatever it was. And we were; hopefully, the songs will satisfy them and not the process that we use to make them. And they won't matter anymore. So, by the end of it, I know that's what we thought. We realized the, at One More Robot, it has, you know, some of this is very technoish, almost something, you know.

U: Yeah, yeah.

W: And I think, It's Summertime, has some sort of funny drums that are strange for us as well. But a lot of it seems, like a logical step from where we were at The Soft Bulletin, and branching out. And I think a couple of years ago people would call it electronica. Nowadays, everything is electronica. There's no real electronica and indie and I'm glad. I just, I like music and I don't like it to be chopped up, like "we're this, we're that". So, we just do whatever we think sounds good. And that's a great feeling, you know, not to restrict yourself. That's one thing if other people restrict you, you can't do anything about it. You fight against it. But a lot of times, with art, you know, people restrict themselves, and that's, ugh, the worst! I mean, where else can you be really unrestricted if not in art. Where else? I mean, we can do this. Nobody gets hurt. Nothing is gonna happen. We should do this, we should explore the universe and we're always so afraid, "Oh, what are people gonna think?" I think finally, where I, we don't care what people think. "Let's do something that's fun and exciting. And if it is fun and exciting, they'll like it. And that'll be what they think.

U: In my impression, the songs sound very, humm...universal?

W: Oh yeah, I, definitely, I think so. I mean there were some parts where we, you know, we were... That is a hard thing to do that people, I think, when you, it's like when you watch someone, you know, doing something that is really, really difficult, but they make it look so easy, and you feel like, "Oh, I could probably do that if I try." But then you go and try and, you see it is... it's impossible. Or take something like ice-skating, or something. It looks so perfect and so graceful, it could almost make you think, you could do it. But it takes years and years to do. And sometimes with pop songs and melodies that, that cause a reaction. I mean, emotion to happen within your mind, you know, they, it's a fine line of being really simple but really having a lot of arc of where it goes with its emotion. And it's not an easy thing to do. I know people who will slag off people like...even Britney Spears, or a lot of people who are trying to do what is, you know, it's sentimental, but it's still trying to get an emotion. And with some of these melodies me and Steven try, I think we were really trying to get that precision of that emotion and we just wanted that. 'Cos a lot of times I think we can get kind of tricky with the melodies and the chords. It can meander off. You've not really sure what it's trying to put across. Some of these, we were just, we, we just wanted to be precise, we wanted people to feel more...

U: Emotional...

W: Yeah, and more immediately. Instead of it being like you have to hear 2o times before you get what we want, we wanted it to be the first time, like, "Oh!" you know...

U: I think that No.9 (Do You Realize), I couldn't breathe. Of course each of them are really great songs. Ego Tripping, this is a sort of, 'wow!' and your voice, singing...

W: [Laughs] Yeah, I know. It's just... that's really David Fridmann.

U: I can concentrate on listening to your voice too. The melody, your voice, singing. And I really love this song too, Ego Tripping. But Do You Realize was "Wow!" I just couldn't breathe. The lyrics, everything is just...

W: Yeah. See, to me, I didn't feel like that one really worked that well. But I told you we did the quick demo. You know, we didn't have any idea exactly how the song would go. You know, you have chords and you have melodies, you don't know where to go with all the stuff. And we did a real quick demo of it, and, people really, just started to like it. But I don't have an explanation as to where,

U: Really...

W:...it goes. I think that it's just something in there, in the sentiment of the song. But you know, you just get lucky with that something that you say has a tone or something about it. And, 'cos, I know everybody that heard it said, "Oh, that's so..." You know I don't think we thought about it in that way at all. It wasn't one that we thought, "Boy, that's really gonna, that's gonna get'em. " 'Cos we thought that it was weird and that it was, that it was slightly awkward but here you go.

U: I only heard the song once, but I can not forget this melody. [Hums]

W: I think it is in some ways, it's kind of like a John Lennon song. I think it feels like the way he will say, 'Imagine this, imagine that.' I'm saying 'Do you realize this, do you realize that.' And I connect Do You Realize to these other kind of moments, and I could see where you could remember. 'Cos it does the same thing a lot so by the time it's done...

U: You say that happiness makes you cry. For me this is The Flaming Lips.

W: Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right.

U: Whenever I listen to your music, I feel like crying.

W: [Laughs] Yeah, I know people, it's just, yeah.

U: It's not like sad or something. Just happiness. Floating, like...

W: I know. I know what you mean. See, and I think that's because when I, and I don't know what it is. To me, when I hear the music, and you do the right chords and the right, or not necessarily the right ones, but these things when they come together, it does evoke that sort of, some kind of emotions. I didn't make up these chords and melodies. These are things that everybody uses forever, you know. But I think there is something about what people perceive The Flaming Lips represent now. When we do it, it's just "Oh," and that line I didn't even, I wasn't even thinking that I would even keep that line. I just thought, "Ah, that's kind of silly." But everybody who heard that, they were about, "Oh, that's, that's so tough." I didn't even, and I'm trying to do things that people like. I mean, I want you to like it. It's not like "I'm just going, oh, whatever." I want you to like it. But a lot of times, you do something and you don't know. "Is that? Is that it?" And you'll be looking somewhere else, and you won't know which part is going to affect you. But you like what we do so much, and, I can see where, it could affect you, and not affect someone who likes, you know, more hard edge kind of music or whatever.

U: And your lyrics also make me really thoughtful...

W: Well, right. It's, see, again, I really, I didn't think of that as being like, "Oh, that's a great perfect lyric." I just thought "Oh, that's, I'll try to sing that." And if it works, that'll be a great thing to sing about. But a lot of times you will think that you wanna sing about something and you will try, but it doesn't really work. That sort of thing. I didn't know if people would think, "Oh, that's silly or that's morbid". And you just get lucky that what you're saying is so simple that it works, as opposed to being so simple that it seems stupid. 'Cos you never know. And I have no idea. A lot of times "Is that? Is that doing what I think? Or is that...?" I mean, I'm, to me, the music and all that sort of stuff, it does, sort of takes on its own life, and I'm just the guy that happens to be singing and it does something else. And that's sort of, to me, that's what makes it so great. It's not us that makes it great. It's that, we're doing something, and something great happens, and we go, "Alright!"

U: Yeah. I've never met a band like The Flaming Lips, so special for me. Its music and performance. I told Michelle last night that I had a really weird experience at Leeds Festival, I think in 1999. I lost my consciousness while watching your show.

W: Oh, I see. Maybe you were too hungry. You needed food.

U: Not like that.

W: Oh.

U: It was so weird experience. Suddenly I lost consciousness. I could see a big light on the stage.

W: Humm!

U: But I wasn't on drugs or something.

W: [Laughs] Alright.

U: I was just, felt like, floating in the space, saw a big halo or light. My friend was pushing me because I was like...

W: [Laughs]

U: She was surprised at me. "What's happened to you?" But I couldn't hear her. For maybe three minutes, four minutes, I lost consciousness...

W: Well, but see, that's you doing it. That's not, that's you doing that.

U: Yeah, kind of funny. But I was just, I thought the music was just magic.

W: Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean I think so much of what happens with music it's up to the audience. The audience makes it work and we're just... If we're doing enough things right where we let you relax and we sing things that you like, then really, the rest of it is sort of you doing it. You are the one being getting happy and making all that.

U: Yes, getting happy.

W: You know, and, you know, it's, that's more you. You're doing that, I mean, we're just the band, you're making those things.

U: I think...because you're musicians...

W: You know, the experience for me is, I know, I mean, I, I'm a professional, whatever. And I do it a lot. But I do want it to work. I do want it, sort of, the possibility of that could be the best night that you've ever had. And if we do all these things right, maybe a couple of people can have this great, perfect experience. But it's not us that's doing it. Otherwise everybody there would've seen that, you know. That's you. But that's you know, that's a great compliment for you to be able...

U: It was funny.

W: Yeah, yeah. Maybe you're going crazy, hah? [Laughs]

U: Just insane, I'm not sure. Maybe I was, maybe hungry or just, I was too tired. I'm not sure.

W: Right. But it was a pleasant experience. It wasn't scary.

U: Not at all. It was just happiness. Like the lyrics, Happiness makes me cry.

W: I think that's great.

U: It was just my stupid experience.

W: [Laughs]

U: Well...How was it, working with David Fridmann this time? This time you took almost a year to record. Is that unusual?

W: I think this one took longer than the others.

U: The Soft Bulletin.

W: I don't know if it seemed as long, if you think that we started to record The Soft Bulletin in 1997, and it didn't come out until 1999. But we did Zaireeka and we did a lot of touring on Zaireeka in America. We did these Boom BOX Shows and all that. So there were these big gaps. We weren't actually recording or, you know, working on songs and production ideas and stuff. And I think this one was more just, start to finish, just longer. There were more sessions, just, more, just kept trying to get... you know, we wanted to do something new, and we just kept wanting to push ahead and try to, you know, just try to do something new and different and progress and yet make it, I don't know, just make it, just saturate it more. If you like something that you like it immediately and it was, I don't know, you know, there was sometimes it would seem as though we had a good plan. Other times it just seemed like "Phfff! This is, none of this is gonna work." You just don't really know. And who knows even now, I mean, now that it's getting ready to come out, you know, we'll, we'll see if it affects anybody else.

U: I think you make a really good combination with Dave Fridmann, and you've been together for a long time.

W: It is, yeah, it is. Because you can, you know, with people that you work with, there's probably sometimes, you have to work it so intense that people have to be able to be, honest, and they have to be able to make decisions quick. I mean, you're doing something, and it costs a lot of money, and takes a lot of people's time. And you have to be able to make a decision. "Oh, that's good. Oh, that's bad. Let's do this, let's do that." And it does become intense. And because we know each other so well, and he's so good at what he does. I try to be good at what I do, he tries to be good at what he does, Michael's good at what he does, Steven's good at what he does. I mean we all just try to do, go as hard as we can. And you know feel like Warner Brothers gives us so much money, you know, we get so, we're so, they gives us so much freedom and so much time and so much money that I kinda feel like "Boy, if we can't do it no one can." You know, I mean we have, we've been doing this for so long. And Dave really is so good. He works with so many bands. He is so good with all that stuff that I just sort of feel like, "Boy, if we can't get something good out of this, we're really missing something..."

U: So you never think of working with any other producers?

W: No. I think, sometimes Dave thinks of other producers. He thinks "Oh, you guys have to start to work with someone else. You'd get a fresh start". I mean, he loves what we do, but he never thinks that, that it's, you know, that it's we and him. He's just looks at it like, "Oh I'll do whatever you guys want me to do." I don't look at that that way. I mean, I think it's, because it can be so intense. Dave will say if he doesn't like something, and then he'll say, "I don't like it. But it still is up to you to decide if you're gonna do it or not." And you know, that's sometimes, we'll be working on stuff and he won't agree with it, you know, he comes around or, there's things, you know he simply won't like, and there'll be some things that he'll want to try that I won't like. But I think little by little, we get more and more, he knows when we're trying to do something new, sometimes, you want to do something new but you're afraid and you still stay in familiar territory and I'll just, be like"I wanna do that," and I'll be like "Let's go" and he'll say, "Yeah, let's go." You won't know, you know, when you're doing something that is new, even if it's just new to you, like with some food, "Oh, I don't know, is that good? Is that bad?" And it's only after you sit there for a while with it. We we're talking about sushi the other day. I first tried it and I thought, "That's too weird, I can't...I don't know about that." And now, I love it. It's the best thing in the world. So you know, your own judgement is always changing. And, I hope that that's something about the way that we make music, that we can always be going into the unknown. At least the unknown for ourselves. And say, "Oh, that's, let's try that," 'Cos it's, you know, that's the exhilarating part of art, that you get caught up in something that you've never done before. And it's only in art that you can do that a lot. A lot of times in your life you can't do that, but you can do it in art. I think we're one of the few bands that have the opportunity to do that. Because we've been doing it for so long. We have Dave Fridmann, we have Warner Brothers, we have, you know, anybody, the way that our fan base is. Our fans are so, they so believe in us. They say, "Go, do it, Wayne! Go do it! You can do it!" You know, that's, when people say "You can make it," it's a great thing. You know, instead of people saying, "Oh, why don't you do this old thing? " They're saying, you know, "Go do it!" That's a good thing.

U: How about the idea for the album jacket? I really like it. Where does it come from?

W: Well, we didn't know what we were gonna call the album for a while. So I started to think of this light-hearted, you know, this Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots. But I would ask people, "Do you think it's silly, do you think it's stupid, do you think it's a joke?" You know, I wanted to see what people thought 'cos I didn't really know. And people would be like 'Oh, I kind of like it. Seems kind of like a weird story that you could tell." You know, so that could be good. Then I thought, a lot of times with our album covers they don't like really, you know, it's not anything. It's like you have a title, and there is a picture but it's like, "What is it?" I don't know. Do they go together? I don't know, I think like Transmissions From The Satellite Hearts, that title and that image look good together, 'cos Michelle's doing that, and you get the feeling that she's hearing something from the void of whatever. But, with The Soft Bulletin, I mean I love the cover, but "what is it?" I don't know.

U: We can't imagine it.

W: Yeah. It's abstract, you know. I mean, it would mean something different, everybody who looked at it, it could mean something different. But this particular one, I kind of wanted it to be...that particular title,

U: And the particular image.

W: Yeah. It was almost like, if you're gonna have that title, you can't have just some abstract thing. I should just make that more... so when people say that and they see that, it's the same.

U: Like, come together...

W: Yeah, yeah. You know, I paint and all that sort of stuff, so I thought, "Oh, I'll just try to come up with some painting that captures that kind of, you know, it's a little Japanese girl, battling a big ugly robot or whatever. And I don't know what any of that means, you know, I just thought, I wanted her to be, you know, to be brave, and to be dignified and to, you know, to know that she can win. But she's not, you know she's not cocky that she can win. But she knows, "Oh, I can do it."

U: Why is it Japanese?

[Continues to Part 2]

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